Posts by Separation of Powers

111

Conti Appeal Preview - Oral Argument Jan 14

by Chaserious in

with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.

i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.

it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.

Separation of Powers

@ Nitty Gritty

I wont ask that cause as you know the ORG is all that matters to a witness. Having been an elder, when two brothers had a business dealing that went awry, the counsel given by the ORG has been that of the apostle Paul, that, essentially, matters be dealt with "in house." Back when these events occurred, from my perspective, there was a mentality of keeping it "in house". There are many people that would probably attest to the pressure put on them of not disclosing these type of events to other members of the congregation for fear that they would be deemed "slanderers" because of the two-witness rule. It is a shame that this type of mentality existed back then. It IS a question of protection by the elders NOT the police, NOT the CTS. When you teach people that all they need is found within the confines of the spiritual paradise, you tell them that they should approach the elders for counsel on everything from marital problems to depression and then you throw your hands up in front of the court and say we have no special relationship...something is quite wrong.

111

Conti Appeal Preview - Oral Argument Jan 14

by Chaserious in

with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.

i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.

it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.

Separation of Powers

It all comes down to what you know and when you knew it, then....what you chose to do about it.....

Anyone on this forum that blames Candace for anything is an idiot, good touch, bad touch, whatever. Every parent has the obligation to teach their kids about such things, but blame the kid if they are manipulated...idiot.

The appellate court has a lot to work with here.....I am hoping that they will confirm the lower court decision. There are so many organizations out there where concern over perception is more important than virtue.

In all of this, ask yourselves one question, How interested were the elders in Fremont with the well-being of Kendricks step-daughter? That may have some bearing on why they chose not to warn others....

108

"Jehovah ALWAYS had/used an organization". How would you reply?

by EdenOne in

in a recent meeting with elders, an argument was used to the effect that jehovah has always [= throughout history] used, or operated through, an organization; therefore, the wts must be that organization today, since god must be using one.

naturally, i know what arguments i've used to counter that argument.

but i'm interested in hearing yours.

Separation of Powers

Better yet, when the new and improved understanding of the F&DS entered the picture, the org stated that from the death of the last apostle until the selection of the modern day FD&S there was no real organization running the show....you can't have it both ways.

Same vein different point, You can't say that the Catholic Church is an apostate church and in the same breath say that they were responsible for the canonization of the bible...... If God entrusted them with the selection and protection of his word, then weren't THEY the chosen organization AND if they were considered apostate PRIOR to the formal canonization of scripture.....then God trusts apostates.

44

Men are not looking forward to becoming Elders or Ministerial Servants

by Hidden-Window in

jw
friends

i have noticed an apparently increasing number of men who are not interested in becoming ministerial servants or elders.

i also know of some that have voluntarily stepped down (which is my case) for no obvious solid reason.. i remember, during my teenage years or even during my twenties, the brothers were always looking forward to being appointed... although many still do, i have noticed there are many others with whom you do not know what the deal is.. since there is no freedom of speech within the organization, we remain in the dark about the motives and desires of everybody else.

i attend a congregation with only two ministerial servants, while it is full of men who do not seem to be willing to do more.. it is hard to tell exactly what is going on, since honesty is not possible while you are inside, but i am starting to think that more and more are becoming disillusioned.... .

Separation of Powers

A lot of young people have an innate Cost/Benefit analysis function. The costs of serving far outweigh the benefits.....you don't have to have a Masters in statistics to see that.

17

Why must we APPLY for everything?

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

i was thinking about this today, after seeing another thread on the subject of serving in israel, of all places.

there have been many comments on the recent thread, and the ones a little older, about how utterly ridiculous that premise is.. the bigger question is why do i have to apply?

permission?

Separation of Powers

I think I have the answer.....

Last week, at the meeting, a young man got up on stage and gave a talk. He did well. He wasn't MLK or even Anthony Morris III, but he did well. The School Overseer praised him excessively too much in fact. But, I understood why. You see, in our hall, very few of the kids do anything at all. Yes, they attend with their families, but their expressions are of boredom and passive acceptance. This kid, on the other hand, is fully invested and its visible. He is taking that JW road and waiting to see where it will take him. From a secular viewpoint, he has some problems, a little self absorbed and spoiled, with just a little too much sarcasm around the edges. From that secular viewpoint, he would be a below average to average kid on the outside. But here, here is the make believe world, he is "the best" (thank you Nacho Libre).

The "Application" process of the JWs serves to make the average...unique, even special. When you are "approved" then all the boxes have been checked and others can see that you are the kind of witness that other witnesses should be. You have the good housekeeping seal of approval and others wish they can have it as well. It is all part of the indoctrination into the BORG.

22

UNDERSTANDING WHY THE ORGANIZATION is a false idol and a BLASPHEMY

by Terry in

do we understand these three words: worship, idolatry, and blasphemy?.

most christians have a vague notion of worship, idolatry, and blasphemy already, but.

a clear definition is necessary.. we must take care to differentiate, however.. how the words appear in original language and how they are defined today might be at odds.. ____________________.

Separation of Powers

It is hard to place yourself on a throne while you are living on this earth and expect that people will not kiss your ring. Funny how the GB keep telling the R&F that treating the brothers of Jesus is what will gain them salvation......blasphemy indeed!

15

Did you grow weary in "well doing"?

by compound complex in

jw
friends

"and let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

" holman christian standard bible; galations 6:9.. i just now remembered an old wt article about the things that discourage us about our imperfect selves.

one such disappointment in ourselves is that we know we should continue doing good unto others, but we're simply worn out.

Separation of Powers

I dug a lot of wells during droughts.....the plants needed water. I didnt grow too weary. Had a back hoe and drilling rig along with a handful of laborers.

39

OMG! The world is worse than ever! This system can't last! Violence is increasing! Wait, what's that you say?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

if you read jw literature, the world has been progressively getting "worse and worse" since 1914.. is that really the case?.

for a more rational analysis, look here:.

a few highlights:.

Separation of Powers

Yes...exactly.

I have always been amazed at JWs because they put SOOO much emphasis on numbers and statistics. They pride themselves on memorial attendance, hours in the ministry etc. Yet, when you use statistics to make your case they challenge.

I had the same conversation with my brother (hard core JW scary). I mentioned the decrease in major crimes and the increase in social improvements. He said, "Well, you know, the Bible does say that things will get better right before the tribulation."

Cant win

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

Separation of Powers

This is how I would argue the point....

"Did you know that the ancient Egyptians used to make paste out of dead mice and place it on infected teeth inside their mouths? It was used for toothache pain. Were they wrong to do that?

Did you know that doctors in ancient Iraq used to use sheep liver to diagnose human illness? Was that wrong?

Did you know that doctors in the 18tha nd 19th century used to cut off half of the tongue of people who stuttered in an attempt to stop their stuttering? Do you think that was wise?

You see, you can't argue that something was not wrong just because it was once accepted. Immunizations were rejected by the ORG way back when and people probably died because of that, was that God's will or his light? You can't argue that God "wanted" those people to die...

So, what's the difference with that "belief" and a "belief" where the Bible is the point in question? If the "generation" is not what was once taught but now a series of groups whose live's overlap, then the first understanding was absolutely wrong.

OR- you could simply scratch your head and say, "you are delusional, aren't you?"

28

Governing Body courageously 'Admit their mistakes'

by LogCon in

march 2015 study article learn from the illustration of the talents.

brothers and sisters worldwide will be overjoyed to know that the governing body finally has the.

courage to admit their mistakes .

Separation of Powers

Didnt hear that for the Awake magazine about the kids that gave their lives for a blood doctrine that has been progressively overhauled.

didnt hear that for those that suffered due to an archaic stance against immunization

didnt hear that for those that experienced years of emotional stress in relationships where porneia had not yet been defined and they could not remarry

didnt hear that for.....the list goes on and on